Jim: If your friends get a vibe, listen. Because the narcissist is really good at finding, if I find the information on you, if I find your vulnerabilities, if I exploit your vulnerabilities. You're going to be no, this guy's great. He's wonderful. Look he got me this thing. He listened when I like tulips. He got me tulips. It’s like if your friends are getting their spidey senses.

Dr. Crockett: Up, you need to listen to them.

Jim: I don't trust me. I incorporate my friends into it. What do y'all think? Are you getting anything's? So yeah, very much trust your intuition and your friends.

Welcome to Becoming Virtuosa, the podcast that encourages you to become your best virtuosa self. Each week Dr. Susan Crockett goes where the scalpel can't reach, exploring conversations about how to be, heal, love, give, grow, pray, and attune. For the first time ever, she's bringing the personal one on one teaching that she shares with individual patients to you on this broader platform. A weekly source of inspiration and encouragement designed to empower you.

By evolving ourselves as individuals. We influence and transform the world around us. Please help me welcome board certified OB-GYN specializing in minimally invasive GYN surgery, internationally in the top 1% of all GYN robotic surgeons, a certified life coach, and US News top doctor, your host Susan A. Crockett, MD.

Dr. Crockett: Hey guys, welcome back to The Dr. Crockett Show. Happy Tuesday. Thanks for joining me today. I've got a wonderful show for you. There has been so much interest for this topic. I know you're going to love this conversation we're going to have with my special guest Jim Denning. Jim is an LPC, and he runs the Denning Center in San Antonio, Texas. I am so excited to have him on the show today because we're going to talk about a very hot topic right now, narcissism. So welcome.

Jim: Thank you.

Dr. Crockett: I wanted to point out that you are an author. You've got your book Make It To Midnight. You're an expert in suicide prevention. That's kind of your heart.

Jim: Yeah, started out as my niche and now I've migrated into.

Dr. Crockett: Helping women avoid narcissistic relationships. Every woman I've talked to about this has been like, oh my gosh, please get this show done. So that's what we're talking about today. I hope you enjoy it. So Jim, why don't you start by telling us what is narcissism? What do you see in your practice with this? What do we need to know about it?

Jim: Narcissism is a personality disorder, and it's really, I'm trying not to use all the big vernacular, but a misperception of consensual reality. So a narcissist, in any other personality disorder but particularly this one, they have a belief system. A narcissistic man believes a woman's mind, body, property, money, all of the things belong to him.

Dr. Crockett: Not in a like I own a table, but just like there's no boundary. It's all mine.

Jim: There's no end, and it's a really a just a profound feeling of superiority. So, of course, I'm superior. So you should bow to me, and you should acquiesce to me. You should always do what I say. If you have an opinion than is different than mine then you're wrong. That's really, I've got a definition here. It says since narcissists deep down feel themselves to be faultless, it is inevitable that when they are in conflict with the world they will invariably perceive the conflict as the world's fault.

Dr. Crockett: Exactly right?

Jim: So you get caught in this trap where it's I am always right. I am never wrong. If you believe that I am wrong then you must be punished or coerced or convinced that you are wrong.

Dr. Crockett: Well, so this falls into my world. For those of you just joining us, I am an OBGYN. In particular, I'm a surgeon. I'm a GYN surgeon in San Antonio, Texas. Surgeons are notorious, we are notorious for being narcissists. It's built into our training. We're not allowed to be wrong. So, of course, it attracts people who have that mindset, and you want your surgeon to be meticulous and always right. We just tend to see a lot of that personality thing fall overflow into my specialty. It's interesting.

Jim: Well, and a lot of people with narcissistic tendencies also elevate to positions of power because they're looking for a situation that validates what they feel. If I feel superior than I need to be superior. Unfortunately, a lot of times they'll go into military or law enforcement where they, that's kind of fostered. Which is fine, but except they bring it home.

Dr. Crockett: Where it really becomes a problem. Because then it turns into a relationship issue.

Jim: Correct.

Dr. Crockett: Which is really the fun part of what I wanted to talk with you about today. Right?

Jim: Yeah.

Dr. Crockett: So we're going to talk about this thing about pathologic love relationships. Did I say it right?

Jim: Yes, pathological love relationships.

Dr. Crockett: So this is a new term to me. I know DSM from way back, but I don't keep up with things like that. So I had never heard this term pathological love relationship. But in your world this is something that's almost synonymous or is synonymous with narcissism and like a codependent pairing.

Jim: So yeah. So somebody in a narcissistic relationship or a pathological relationship, something pathological is obsessive and compulsive. Not like, I guess it's kind of like obsessive and compulsive disorder but it's you can't help it. They're pathological, a pathological liar, a pathological cheater, a pathological gambler. They cannot control their compulsion to do so.

Dr. Crockett: Okay.

Jim: So the person that's the narcissist has the pathology. The person who is the partner of the narcissist gets caught up in, for lack of a better phrase, their distortion field, their artificial reality. So if the narcissist feels they're superior than they will continue to punish, berate, coerce the person they are with to believe that with them. So they will make them believe they're inferior. They're never going to find anybody else. The emotional roller coaster, keeping them constantly off balance.

Dr. Crockett: The gaslighting.

Jim: Oh, gaslighting is, I mean, if you haven't seen the movie Gaslight, where the term gaslight comes from, it's phenomenal movie. It's basically the guys just intentionally trying to make his wife think she's crazy so he can inherit all her money. Because if she passes away.

Dr. Crockett: He gets all the money.

Jim: No, the money goes to the relatives. But if she goes to an asylum, he gets to keep the money. So he spends the whole movie trying to make her think she's crazy.

Dr. Crockett: Oh, my gosh.

Jim: It's really, it's a phenomenal movie. But that's what the problem with the narcissist is they believe it. That's where really people get stuck is that the narcissist actually believes these things. They think they're superior. They think they're better than everybody else. When the world doesn't believe them, they get frustrated. That frustration comes out.

Dr. Crockett: As anger or manipulation, rage, physical abuse, all kinds of stuff.

Jim: Because of that facade collapses, their entire world has collapsed.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah.

Jim: They've also got a very profound fear of rejection. So they've got to project this facade out into the world that they're greater than they are. They have more money than they have or more famous than, whatever it happens to be. They're projecting this facade. Then they come home and take all of that negative energy and dump it on everybody else.

Dr. Crockett: So this sounds like a horrible type of thing. From my perspective, as a gynecologist, I'm dealing with women all day, and I have a lot of husbands that come in. I get to see a fair number of couples. It's interesting because it's usually around surgery, which is kind of a stressful thing. So it's fascinating for me to see the couples that come in.

But I see the women so often, so frequently, this looks like it's kind of happening. So I was wondering what you think about or what you see in your practice about is this something that's increasing in our society? Is it something that it's always been there, but we're just learning more about? What do you think's going on with the trending?

Jim: I think it's just a boundless sense of entitlement. I think there's a lot of debate of how social media plays into it, getting likes and things like that.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah.

Jim: But it's also just lack of discipline, lack of being told no. The research that I've read or looked into is that narcissist it requires two components. Its nature and nurture. You have to be born with the brain structure of a narcissist, but you also have to be brought up in an environment that fosters that brain structure.

Dr. Crockett: Interesting.

Jim: So when I was growing up or generations before, discipline was yes, ma'am; no, ma'am. Yes, sir. No, sir. Everything was very solid. As that's kind of deteriorated, the narcissistic mindset of entitlement has kind of blossomed. So I think the physical brain structure has always been there, but it's become more pervasive because of that.

You can see it, the most fascinating thing, and I don't have research to back this up. It's just the observations. Is if there's a family, you can see the genetic trail. Grandpa was a narcissist. Dad was a narcissist. It follows, the genetics follow. People blame it a lot on conditioning, but it hasn't been. So I'll see like if there's a husband and wife, the husband's a narcissist, the wife's not. If they've got two kids, one of the two kids generally has narcissistic tendencies. The two narcissists will kind of form a pack and control the other two.

Dr. Crockett: Oh my gosh.

Jim: It's really interesting. Well, I've gotten to where I can call it now. Just somebody comes in and I was like what other of your siblings is a? Oh, it’s my sister. So, it's very predictable now, or very you can see it.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah. Which gets us to our next question, which is golly. God help us all. Like how do we protect ourselves from this? How do we keep from falling into this? How do we identify it? How do we look at ourselves if we are that codependent side? How do we identify if we're the narcissist? Somebody once told me that if you're asking that question, you're not.

Jim: That really is it. If you're asking yourself am I a narcissist? No. Because if you think of the definition, a narcissist cannot be wrong. A narcissist cannot have flaws. Narcissism is a flaw. If they are asking the question, they are open to the idea.

Dr. Crockett: Of having a flaw, and it’s not going to happen.

Jim: Which is impossible. Yeah.

Dr. Crockett: Okay. So tell us the red flags. Tell us how to protect ourselves.

Jim: Two things that are really, really important to know about narcissist is they never, ever give up and they never get tired. So before we go into the stages and identifying them, it's like a narcissist. I've had clients where the husband or the boyfriend or whatever has been wonderful for two or three years. As soon as the ring goes on, the switch flips.

I don't think there's really a definition as far as because there's some that are impatient. There's some that are if you're not getting what you want the first three, they're gone. But then there's the other ones that are just, it's almost like a game, like a predatory game to them. They have to get to it. But in the early stages of dating, I've just kind of compiled some things here. Don't reveal too much about yourself too quickly.

Dr. Crockett: I think that's a big one, especially with the social media when our lives are out there so much. So we were used to already having a lack of boundaries and having a lot of reveal. then part of getting to know somebody is getting that, getting to know them. So how do you do that if you don't reveal some?

Jim: Well, good question. My previous career was cybersecurity. So I'm very, I don’t know if paranoid is the right word.

Dr. Crockett: In your previous life.

Jim: In my previous career.

Dr. Crockett: With your Mensa certification and your IT engineering stuff and all that.

Jim: All the things. So I'm on this side of paranoid on that stuff. But it really is, I guess I’ll come in from the backside. If you're in an argument or discussion with a narcissist, you want to make as few words as possible. No is a complete sentence. Because if you give them more information, that's more ammunition.

Dr. Crockett: So when you're first meeting somebody and you're dating, before you really figure out what you're dealing with and get a little bit further in, you need to be really cautious about trusting them and letting them in.

Jim: Because anything can and will be used against you in the court of narcissism. So they are very good at. Because the narcissist is not interested, they want to take your soul. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. They want your soul.

Dr. Crockett: Wow.

Jim: There's, neurologically there's an exchange of dopamine and serotonin. If I dominate somebody, if I get serotonin and dopamine, like a drug. So if I if I dominate somebody's soul, I'm doing that. So revealing too much, and it's really just.

Dr. Crockett: That’s what narcissistic supply is, by the way.

Jim: Yeah.

Dr. Crockett: That you're supplying them with that whenever they need to bump up their dopamine and serotonin.

Jim: Yeah, this is where the love bombing comes in. If you give a lot of information then they're coming at you with all the things. Second one, take it slowly. Don't loosen your boundaries too soon. Watch for their reactions when you put on the brakes.

Dr. Crockett: Like when you tell them no.

Jim: That is a huge one.

Dr. Crockett: It is a huge one. In the beginning of a relationship especially, you want to be accommodating and pleasing and you don't want to say no. But it is an interesting little test point. Like, even on something super simple. Like do you want to go, I want to go to this place to eat. No, I'm not up for that tonight. Just pushing that a little bit to see what happens.

Jim: Yep, splitting the check or whatever. Because, again, narcissists have this crippling fear of rejection. So no is rejection. Again, it's that's where no is a complete sentence.

Dr. Crockett: It took me a long time to learn that. Yeah, I've got it down pretty good.

Jim: But say if you're out on a date with a narcissist like hey, do you want to go back to my place? You say no, I'm really not feeling it tonight. I've got to wake up early in the morning. Okay, I've got something to grab onto. Oh, I won't be there that long. But if it's just a.

Dr. Crockett: No.

Jim: The fewer words, the better.

Dr. Crockett: That makes sense.

Jim: Err on the side of they are narcissistic, or at least emotionally immature if we're not going full pathology.

Dr. Crockett: Let’s just be kind about how we're saying. You can't really diagnose somebody with a personality disorder if you're not a psychiatrist or psychologist or counselor, and they're not your client.

Jim: I've been wrong.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah.

Jim: Even then, I've got the license, and I've been fooled. I end up in front of a, in a deposition and all the demons come out that this person neglected to tell me. So yeah, it is, yeah. So no, they're very good. Then the last one there trust and honor your intuition. I'm going to add to this one, use your friends. If your friends get a vibe, listen.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah, I think that’s so important.

Jim: Because the narcissist is really good at finding, if I find the information on you, if I find your vulnerabilities, if I exploit your vulnerabilities. You're going to be no, this guy's great. He's wonderful. Look he got me this thing. He listened when I like tulips. He got me tulips. It’s like if your friends are getting their spidey senses.

Dr. Crockett: Up, you need to listen to them.

Jim: I don't trust me. I incorporate my friends into it. What do y'all think? Are you getting anything? So yeah, very much trust your intuition and your friends. Then there's a phenomenal list of, it's the Bill of Rights for Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.

Dr. Crockett: Awesome.

Jim: Which is very good for, really I use it kind of as a barometer a lot of times because people who have never been in a narcissistic relationship or never had narcissistic parents or any things, they hear this list, and they're just like yeah, that makes sense. But people who have been subject to it, they hear the list, and there's always some kind of visceral reaction. Like, oh, I have the right to say no? Oh, that’s a thing?

Dr. Crockett: Yeah. Because when you're in a narcissistic relationship, especially with a narcissistic parent, you're taught never to talk back, never to say. You're not allowed to have that autonomy. It's often a punishable fault. Like, I've seen that again and again. Okay, so.

Jim: So anyway, so I'll just read through them real quickly.

Dr. Crockett: I'm going to put the link for you guys for the book there. I’ll also put a link for your book also down below in the YouTube notes. Then, we're going to put the individual things, the individual Bill of Rights things. We'll have our editor put them on the screen for you so you can see them.

Jim: That'll work. The book is Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. All right. So the right to set limits is the first one. I have the right to set limits on your hurtful or exploitive behavior. I have the right to break off any interaction in which I feel pressured or coerced. I have the right to stop anything long before I feel exhausted. While I have the right to call a halt to any interaction, I do not find enjoyable.

Dr. Crockett: Wow.

Jim: I have the right to say no without a good reason.

Dr. Crockett: What?

Jim: I know, and it's interesting. I read that one. It's like a good reason. It's this is the misperception of consensual reality. Your definition of a good reason and my definition may not be the same. It doesn't matter. Your definition.

Dr. Crockett: It's good for you.

Jim: Yeah, my definition of a good reason is because, again, that's when you add something to the tail end of well, I don't want to go home with you because I have to work tomorrow. That's a good reason. But they'll come in and attack that.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah.

Jim: So it's holding firm. It really is a lot of boundary things. That the hardest part about boundaries is you continually have to reinforce them. If you're reinforcing them with somebody, there's a flag. So.

Dr. Crockett: If you're reinforcing the boundaries over and over again, there's a flag. That needs to be like tattooed on every woman's forehead. Okay, keep going.

Jim: The right not to be emotionally coerced. I have the right not to be your rescuer. I have the right to ask you to get help from someone else. I have the right not to fix your problems. I have the right to let you manage your own self esteem without my input. I have the right to let you handle your own distress. I have the right to refuse to feel guilty.

Dr. Crockett: Wow.

Jim: Yeah, just going to read that to me again.

Dr. Crockett: Wow.

Jim: The right to emotional autonomy and mental freedom. I have the right to any and all of my feelings. I have the right to think anything I want. I have the right not to be ridiculed or mocked about my values, ideas, or interests. I have the right to be bothered by how I am treated. I have the right not to like your behavior or attitude.

This one's really important because one of the tools of the narcissist is to, it's called identity management. It's managing your identity. Anytime that somebody, if they're with a narcissist, anytime they do something good, they do something exceptional, they do something that elevates them, whether on purpose or on accident, has to be shut down. Because the narcissist reality is I am superior.

So if you’ve got two people together, Jennifer's a teacher, and she comes home one day and says I really connected with this kid. I really made a difference. He'll say something like well really, even insignificant people can make significant things every so often. Or well, that's just one kid. How many do you teach in a day? Yeah, anything to diminish.

Dr. Crockett: The success.

Jim: Just keeping that identity suppressed.

Dr. Crockett: Wow.

Jim: So it works.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah.

Jim: Sadly. I have the right to choose relationships. Okay, so this one is important because if a narcissist is trying to control your perception of reality, my biggest threat to your perception of reality is other people who live in reality. So I want to isolate. I want you away. If your friends contradict me, I don't want you hanging out with them anymore.

Dr. Crockett: So this one crosses the line into signs of abuse that we are trained as a gynecologist to see. With women, human trafficking and all of them, of course, narcissism is going to cross over that. But that's a big red flag when somebody's trying to isolate you, control your phone, control your money, control your access to your friends, how you leave the house, who you spend your time with. Yeah, that's not normal in a normal trusting relationship.

Jim: No. The subcategories of those, I have the right to know whether I love you or not. I have the right to refuse what you want to give me. That's a big one.

Dr. Crockett: Yep.

Jim: I have the right not to be disloyal to myself, just to make things easier for you. I have the right to end our relationship, even if we're related.

Dr. Crockett: Oh.

Jim: That's a big one.

Dr. Crockett: That is a big one.

Jim: I have the right to not to be depended upon. I have the right to stay away from anyone who is unpleasant or draining. Then the right to clear communications. I have the right to say anything as long as I do so in a nonviolent, non-harmful way. I have the right to ask to be listened to. I have the right to tell you my feelings are hurt. I have the right to speak up and tell you what I really prefer. I have the right to be told what you want from me without assuming I should know. So. I know.

Dr. Crockett: Rewind that one.

Jim: Yeah, that one. Well, there's two really in there. The right to clear communication is, that is the things you leave out, the silent treatment is a big one. I'm angry at you, and I'm not going to tell you why. I'm going to let you just stew in it and try to figure it out for yourself. If you're a more of a people pleasing type of person, you're going to want that to end as soon as possible. So that's a real big coercion thing, letting people fill in those. That's a real big manipulation technique.

Dr. Crockett: Interesting.

Jim: Just tell you enough information for you to kind of.

Dr. Crockett: Start perseverating and stewing and feeling awful and then coming back and groveling.

Jim: What did I do? You know? These are all, if you look at them externally, they're all control mechanisms. They're all I am defining what is success. What reality is? I'm defining what's right and wrong. All this time, I'm just chipping at your identity.

Dr. Crockett: At your autonomy. Yeah, and your identity.

Jim: Everything. Yeah. Then I can reconstruct it how I want.

Dr. Crockett: That's fascinating. Because they don't go to school and learn these things.

Jim: No.

Dr. Crockett: It's just in them.

Jim: No, sadly, there are people who teach classes on this. Yeah.

Dr. Crockett: Not how to avoid it, but how to do it?

Jim: How to do it.

Dr. Crockett: Oh, my gosh, that's diabolical.

Jim: Yeah, welcome to the internet.

Dr. Crockett: Okay, we're not referencing those in our show.

Jim: No, no, no.

Dr. Crockett: That would be bad.

Jim: Yeah, the right to choose what's best for me. I have the right not to do things if it's not a good time for me. I have the right to leave whenever I want. I have the right to say no to activities or get togethers I don't feel enjoyable. I have the right to make my own decisions without self-doubt. I like that last one. The two, I have the right to say no to going to things, and I have the right to say no without questioning myself.

Dr. Crockett: That's huge.

Jim: Yeah.

Dr. Crockett: I think our viewers really need to hear that.

Jim: That's what to do in the mirror a few times. The right to live life my own way. I have the right to take action even if you don't think it's a good idea. I have the right to spend my energy and time on what I find important. I have the right to trust my inner experiences and take my aspiration seriously. I have the right to take all the time I need and not be rushed.

Dr. Crockett: Wow.

Jim: Again, these are all things is you need to move faster, you need to. It's all just chipping away at your soul and then reconstructing it how I want. This is you should be ready at this time. You should do this thing this way.

Dr. Crockett: Behave this way for me because this is my world, and you're revolving around it.

Jim: It really is constructing a prison with no walls on it.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah wow.

Jim: It's insidious, but you're right. I don't know why people can do this automatically. It's still a mystery to me, but it's just an automated behavior. I think it's just they really believe that their definition of what is right in the world is the definition. Anybody who disagrees is just wrong. Simple as that. I have the right to put my own health and wellbeing first. I have the right to thrive, not just survive.

Dr. Crockett: That's a big one.

Jim: That's a big one.

Dr. Crockett: So this is our first seed. So for those of y'all just joining us that we have the seven seeds. They're the seven topics of our show, the seven themes. So they go from left to right be, heal, love, give, grow, pray, and attune. So the be one is how do you decide to be? How do you want to be as yourself? That is your self-actualization. That is your self-identity. We're going to be shooting in the next couple of weeks the first book chapter that we're going to talk about that. So this point that you just made, this last one, falls into that category really strongly.

Jim: Well, and I heard a different definition of integrity recently. Integrity being kind and honest, but also integrity in the integration standpoint. Integrating your soul, your personality into the expectations of you. Sometimes you've got to change the people who expect things of you to match who you are and not lose your own identity.

Dr. Crockett: Interesting. Okay.

Jim: So trying to integrate all those things. Again, it's like yeah. If I don't feel comfortable here, a lot of people growing up, they're just well, I just have to deal with it. It's like no, you don't. You can say no. Yeah this is one of my dad's favorite sayings. No, it was a complete sentence. I never liked hearing that one. Then the last one, I'm sorry, we're going through these.

I have the right to take time for myself to do what I enjoy. I have the right to decide how much energy and attention I give other people. I have the right to take time to think things over. I have the right to take care of myself regardless of what others think. I have the right to take the time and space necessary to nourish my inner world.

This one I think is a real important one on the introvert/extrovert thing. I guess I'm an introvert. I'm an extrovert sometimes, but I need to be alone to kind of reset. If somebody is, the narcissist person, is more extroverted. Well, then you should be extroverted. If they're more introverted, well, why do you want to go out? They can't comprehend that the way that they view things is not universal. So these are really important ones for autonomy, I believe. Then the last one is the right to protect myself.

Dr. Crockett: Wow, that should have been number one. Yeah.

Jim: I think she builds it up to where the end is like this is the thing that brings it all together. So the right to love and protect myself. I have the right to self-compassion when I make mistakes. Need to read that one again. Read that one for me. I have the right to change my self-concept when it no longer fits. I have the right to live my life without ridicule from anyone.

Dr. Crockett: Wow.

Jim: I have the right to love myself and treat myself nicely. I have the right to be free of all self-criticism and to enjoy my individuality. I have the right to be me. That's a big one.

Dr. Crockett: That's beautiful.

Jim: Yeah if you're, especially if it's a child of a narcissist, and then it's that pattern gets established. I think the narcissistic person, back to our early stages of dating.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah.

Jim: The right to be me first presupposes you know what me is.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah.

Jim: Yeah. That's a lifelong journey all by itself.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah, that's a really interesting point. Like if you don't have a good self-actualization, or like so many of the women that I see are dysregulated. Like we talk about autonomic dysregulation where the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems are out of whack from stress. I don't mean like sympathetic like I have sympathy. I'm talking about like sympathetic nervous system is your flight or fight, gets you going, and your parasympathetic is the brake on that. That's the chill out. That's a very binary way of looking at a very complicated system.

But when we see autonomic dysregulation, we see that classic female stress. With women we see very stressed, often having trouble sleeping, a lot of attention problems, but they're also used to a life of chaos where they're, especially if they fall into the more codependent category of trying to keep everybody, all the balls in the air and keep everybody calm and not yelling at them because they're not getting their way. It's like walking on eggshells thing.

Jim: Well, the codependent thing is the very definition of I don't know what me is because I'm dependent upon the environment to tell me.

Dr. Crockett: It falls right into, and it's the perfect puzzle piece for a narcissist. They're like yin and yang, right?

Jim: Well, the phrase nature abhors a vacuum. You've created a vacuum in your identity. There is going to be somebody who wants to fill it.

Dr. Crockett: So my friends and I were talking the other day about why so many women, like why we choose the bad boys? Or why do we choose the narcissistic, not just the narcissistic but why are women, why are so many of us attracted to the thrill seekers are the bad boys? The good guys are sitting at home and being overlooked. Like, what is that? What is that?

I was talking with my girlfriend about it and, and what we decided was if our nervous system is out of whack and we're used to being in that kind of environment then we're kind of seeking that, and it's comfortable. Then when you get healthier and you get balanced in form your identity and aren't so codependent then those people aren't quite as attractive. You started looking for the good guys.

Jim: Yeah, I mean if you look the dysregulation you're talking about, you acquit it, I guess, to a boat in a storm, and they see an island of confidence and solidity and predictability. It’s like oh, I can grab on to that because that's something solid and predictable and not chaotic.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah.

Jim: But conversely, if somebody is used to absolute chaos and absolute, they really have a hard time. I see with a lot of people like move to San Antonio from, say, New York or Chicago or something where there's constant sound and constant stimulation. It's quiet here.

Dr. Crockett: It's uncomfortable.

Jim: Yeah. But I do a lot of trauma therapy with military personnel and things like that. A lot of people will come back from combat and come here, and it's like you can't get on a plane in some war torn country and get off the plane here 24 hours later and leave it there. Your sympathetic nervous system is still cranking.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah.

Jim: They want to go back just to get in an environment that matches what they're feeling in here. So fascinating.

Dr. Crockett: Yeah.

Jim: So it really is. It is all because of the parasympathetic nervous system, calming down all of those things, getting that confidence, and establishing who we are as individuals and then taking that and going forward and seeing where it fits and where it can mold with somebody else.

Dr. Crockett: And seeing the red flags.

Jim: Oh the red flags are yeah, there's a lot of those.

Dr. Crockett: Thank you for listening to part one. If you enjoyed that, please like and share with your friends. Share it with people who need to know about this, and we have more coming, so check out part two.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Becoming Virtuosa. To learn more, come visit us at DrCrockett.com, or find us on YouTube for the Dr. Crockett Show. If you found this episode helpful or think it might help someone else, please like, subscribe, and share. This is how we grow together. Thanks, and I'll see you next week. Love always, Sue.