Episode #19:

Life After Hard Choices with Amanda Kingsley

Hello, my virtuosas! What an important discussion I have for you today! I’m joined by fellow certified life coach and post-abortive counselor Amanda Kingsley. After making the difficult decision to undergo an abortion, Amanda was left feeling alone, ashamed, and unsupported in her grief. She now uses her experience to coach and support other women who have also made this difficult choice.

How we behave and treat others is completely within our control, and it’s important to be compassionate, regardless of differing beliefs. So many women are making difficult choices and after doing the hard work, are finding themselves stuck and unable to move forwards. This polarizing discussion is an extremely important one to have – we are all human and this is a human experience!

Join us this week where we’ll discuss why the topic of abortion is far from black and white, and how to love others, even if we don’t agree with the choices they make. We’ll learn how holding space for two very different ideas at the same time can help us suspend judgment and cultivate compassion for ourselves and those around us, and how having our own back can help us move forward with joy.

WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER

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How to be compassionate to somebody who makes decisions that contradict your beliefs.

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Why every hard choice is a fork in the road in the path of our lives.

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How to have your own back and keep moving forward.

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How to get unstuck following a hard decision.

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Why we need to be more open to discussing polarizing topics.

FEATURED ON THE SHOW

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Check out more episodes of the podcast here!

TRANSCRIPT

Susan Crockett: Welcome to Becoming Virtuosa, the podcast, with Dr. Susan Crockett. You are listening to episode number 19: Life after Hard Choices, an interview with fellow certified life coach, Amanda Kingsley. This episode is dedicated to all young women who struggle with hard choices.

Female Announcer: Welcome to Becoming Virtuosa, where women learn to love their lives. Do you find yourself frustrated by society’s expectations? Looking for practical advice on how to discover your talents and level up your life? You’ve found the right place. Here’s your host, US News top doctor, robotic surgeon and certified life coach, Dr. Susan Crockett.

Susan Crockett: Hello, my virtuosas, hello, hello. I’m your host, Dr. Susan Crockett, as always you can call me Sue, because here I am not your doctor, I am a doctor. I may be your doctor, but today I am not in this setting. We are getting ready to have a really, really amazing lesson today. This is a skill that I’m going to teach you guys, it’s kind of an upper level skill, this is not for like beginner level, entry level, emotional brain management. This is a higher functioning, higher level skill.

And we’re going to have a great interview with Amanda today, I’m going to introduce her in just a minute. But before I get into that, I wanted to talk with you just a little bit about what’s going on outside in Texas. It has been the craziest week, I’ve got fawns being dropped on my lawn, that’s right, the deer are dropping their fawns. And we have an itty-bitty tiny newborn baby that was just dropped like two hours ago, and that is just amazing.

And then elsewhere in Texas, you would never know it was so peaceful and beautiful, because tornados have been hitting. So a tornado hit two of my friends’ houses the night before last and they are struggling with that. And I’m just like life is so brutal, it can be so beautiful and so brutal and all at the same time. And we are here just to enjoy it all, I think, so thanks for being here with me, thanks for listening to another day on the podcast.

You might remember when I had started this podcast, if you listened to episode 1, that I made a pretty big deal out of wanting to have this to be a very inclusive podcast, that my target audience, yes, is mainly women, but if you’re a man, if you’re transgender, if you’re a woman, no matter how you identify yourself you’re welcome to be a listener and participate and go on this Becoming Virtuosa journey with us, which is becoming the best version of yourself.

I talked about how it doesn’t matter what race you are, where you live in the world, what your religious preferences are, your sexual orientations, whether you’re young or old, I really don’t care. This is an all inclusive safe place. So when I said all those things, those are things that are generally considered how people are. We don’t get to choose where we’re born. We don’t get to choose our color of our skin. Some of them, like religion, we get to choose and make choices about as we grow. But most of these are things that are about how people are.

Today I’m going to challenge you with a much deeper idea, this is like inclusion 201, instead of level 101. We’re going to extend it from how people are to what people do. So we’re going to teach you, we’re going to talk a lot today about holding space for two very different ideas at the same time.

And you can think about these as being weights that you hold in each of your hands, so you have two different weights, you hold one in your right hand and one in your left. And we’re going to hold both of them at the same time, and hold space for them at the same time. In one hand we’re going to hold things that we believe, things that you believe or that you think should happen. And in the other hand we’re going to hold space for still being loving and compassionate with others and/or yourself when you or they make decisions that contradict that should or that belief.

So this is a skill, this is a meta-skill, it takes practice, it’s a skill of suspending the judgment, or the should in order to fully love and have compassion for another being, or to fully love and have compassion for yourself.

So today’s topic is about life after hard choices, if we live long enough we all have the opportunity and the privilege of making hard choices. Every hard choice we make is a fork in the road or the path of our lives, it’s the path taken and a path not taken. So, hard choices challenge our beliefs, beliefs, I know a lot of you want to think that beliefs are like circumstances, they are not. Beliefs are thoughts about things in the world, they are hardwired into our being. They’re hardwired from birth by our society, our families, our genetics, our habits, they are our core beliefs.

When somebody makes a choice to choose something different than society, or their family, or their church, or to go against what they say, it creates dissonance or conflict, when our beliefs are challenged. And so even saying that something is a hard choice, that to quality it is hard or difficult really is a judgment in and of itself. What maybe I should call it is making choices that challenge our beliefs, or those beliefs of those around us.

So how do we do this? I have found in my life when I’ve had to make hard choices that knowing what that deep small God voice is saying in my heart, knowing what that alignment with God is. And making the decision based on that, when God’s speaking into me and me listening and tuning into God in me. And then moving forward in that direction has become one of the most important skills that I’ve ever learned. It’s having my own back, making hard choices is about being aligned with your higher self, your virtuosa self.

Hard choices mean having your own back. So let me just give you an example of this. In medicine, the practice of medicine, I practice loving every single patient. So when I was a younger doctor I found a lot more challenges in my brain about shoulds and how, you know, judgments about how patients should be. I even tried more to convince them that they should be different than I do now.

The idea is that in a clinic when I’m seeing patients there are four closed doors with patients behind them. And I don’t get to choose who’s behind the doors, it could be anybody. And it frequently is people who have very different beliefs than myself or done things that I wouldn’t do, or are just being human in ways that aren’t the same way I would think. But my job as a physician, and my heart as a physician is to suspend the judgment.

So, again, thinking about those two hands held out front, so here’s what I personally believe or think and then the other one is holding compassion and love for the person. So when I’m practicing medicine I practice this all the time, I love the person no matter what, no matter what they tell me, no matter what my personal should is about them. My job is to meet them where they are and to take them to a higher level of health, whether that be surgically or through coaching, I sneak that in sometimes, or just managing their medications or whatever that may be.

So I’ve practiced that meta-skill of being able to hold the space for the two ideas a whole, whole lot. When I do surgery, I remember the first time I held a scalpel and cut on somebody in order to fix them, I had to hold the belief in my one hand that I was causing them pain because I was cutting them. And hold the other belief that out of love and compassion I was doing it to heal them.

And now as a surgeon I don’t even think about it all these years later. But there is a suspension of that ordinary belief that allows me to do the healing work with love and compassion that I do in the operating room.

I’m going to challenge you guys to think about times when you may have had situations like this in your own life and you may not have thought about it in quite this way. But I’ve been through divorce, I went through an ugly divorce and I was somebody who we didn’t believe in divorce. We got married and that was it for life and the D word didn’t exist, and yet here I am divorced. And it took me a long time to reconcile that, the difference in do I believe in it as a good thing, and then loving myself that actually had that happen.

I think lots of times all kinds of decisions require us to learn the skill or to do that, whether it’s quitting a job, or taking a job, or moving, or changing your family, or going against the norm in the population. Maybe it’s choosing gay marriage, maybe it’s choosing to stand up for those who are weaker than you. I know lots of people who don’t believe in being unfit, but they’re overweight from overeating. If this is you, can you have compassion for yourself? Can you both hold your belief and your compassion for your body?

Lots of people don’t believe in having debt, but they have a monthly car or house payment, some would call this hypocrisy. No, I believe it is called being human, it is working it out, it is figuring out this bit called life with raw honesty and transparency. So it is being able to hold space for both what we ideally want, our belief, our thoughts about life and having compassion and love for ourselves and others, in spite of them not meeting that should standard.

So what I’ve noticed in life is that many people don’t move forward after making their hard choice, they get stuck. So they get stuck at that fork in the road and worry about what could have been or should have been. Did they make the right decision? So they’ve gone through all of the hard work to listen to their soul, to make a hard decision, to create a life that they want to have, and then they end up not being able to enjoy it because they are not moving forward in that hard decision and enjoying their lives.

This is exactly where my guest today, Amanda Kingsley, works. So today we are going to talk about this concept as it is exemplified by a very polarizing topic, abortion. It is an important discussion to have and I haven’t heard anybody have a discussion like we’re having today. I’d love to know if you’ve had it, if you’ve heard somebody else discussing it like this.

This is an important discussion because I’m going to talk with you in terms of looking at this issue with the meta-skill of holding your beliefs in one hand and love and compassion for the person. No matter what their beliefs are, even if they seem to be different than you, and we may find that we’re not so different in all of this in the end. And we’re going to use this topic to learn the skill of holding space for compassion for others, no matter what their beliefs are, no matter what the shoulds are.

To do this we’re not suspending your beliefs, I’m not challenging your beliefs, whatever they are. This is not a debate that is black and white, or not wrong or right, it’s not about choice or life. What we’re doing today is we’re having an important discussion because I live in a conservative state, Bible Belt.

I live in a state where 78% say they’re Christian, and fully half of those consider themselves Evangelical Christians. Yet at least 40% of my patients, maybe more who haven’t told me, when we’re taking their history in their intake, they have had a pregnancy termination somewhere in their history.

So it’s very evident to me as I go about the practice of medicine that we have to hold a space from what we think these patients, a lot of them who identify as conservative Christians, they would say that they are pro life. They may even vote politically pro life. And we have to hold space with the compassion for them and for ourselves as humanity because of what they have been through in termination, and making that hard decision.

So this is exactly what Amanda does. Amanda by educational background is fully immersed in motherhood, she is a doula, she’s gone to midwifery school, she is a mother herself. And in her coaching practice she focuses on getting unstuck. She is dedicating her work to love women and help them love their lives after making the hard choice of abortion. She is a post abortive counselor.
	
Alright, hey, Amanda, how are you doing?

Amanda Kingsley: I am so good, it is gorgeous here today.

Susan Crockett: Is it? Where are you from?

Amanda Kingsley: I’m in Massachusetts, and the weather has just been absolutely dreamy, which we’re recording now in sort of pandemic world, so lovely weather is everything.

Susan Crockett: We appreciate it so much more, don’t we?

Amanda Kingsley: Right, I know.

Susan Crockett: Well, I am in Texas and it is hot and muggy today, we are supposed to get rain, so yeah, I’ll live through you for today, kind of vicariously. I am so glad for you to come and talk with us today. I wanted to start just with your kind of your story. We have all our coaching stories about how we came to life coaching. And I think this interview is super important to me as an OB/GYN and as a life coach, and getting to interview somebody like you who  has that background in women’s health and coaching is super cool. So tell me about how you came to this.

Amanda Kingsley: Yeah. I’ll give you a super short version of my coaching story. I work mostly with women, I work mostly in reproductive health now, in coaching. And I started women’s studies in college, so as my undergrad work I went to midwifery school thinking that that was the direction that I wanted to go. Decided to have my own family, which brought me off course from that sort of world for a little while.

And then I stepped back in as a doula, I attended like three to five births a month, it was like – I tell people all the time that pregnancy and birth run in my blood, they’re just there. You can’t make them go away, it’s just always been a part of the way I am. As a kid there was always another kid on my hip, so it’s just always been my world.

So I was doing doula work, decided that there was supposed to be one more baby in our family. And when he came doula work became really challenging for many, many reasons, but particularly because it’s on call work. I was managing on call work with two kids, two small kids, but with three it was just too much. So that led me into, what can I do from home? Which in a very amazing but brief stint, led me through network marketing, I was selling medicinal mushroom supplements. And it was such a game changing piece of my life.

But what I loved most was coaching, what I loved most was leadership and helping people transform into who they wanted to be.

Susan Crockett: Isn’t that just the best? That is the coolest privilege of doing this coaching thing. And as you know, the podcast, the Becoming Virtuosa podcast is all about exactly that, helping women transform into the best versions of themselves, right?

Amanda Kingsley: Yeah, absolutely.

Susan Crockett: So often we leave out this part about reproductive, we’re kind of afraid to talk about it because it’s so polarizing. But I think this conversation is super important in the context of how we think about ourselves as women regardless of where we are in the reproductive world, either our rights or politically at all. Just have the conversation about us as women and our bodies and reproduction, it is a core part of who we are.

Amanda Kingsley: Yeah, yeah. So I have always just felt so connected to being a mom and again, to pregnancy and birth and everything about that. The reproductive world just lit me up. And in it, I always thought I support women for any choices they need to make, any reason they need to make them. But I could never choose to terminate a pregnancy. And then I was faced with a really hard decision myself.

Susan Crockett: Wow. So you ended up in the middle of this yourself?

Amanda Kingsley: Yeah. So as a woman, as an individual I just couldn’t – it was just something I didn’t really pay attention to reproductive justice conversations too much. I didn’t really pick sides, but I knew that I loved mothering so much, it was so much a piece of who I am, and I loved babies and I loved pregnant bellies, and I loved birth. I couldn’t fathom how I could choose some day to terminate a pregnancy.

So I always thought, well, if there is – this is our only unplanned pregnancy, I’ve been with my husband for 20 years or more at this point. So it was one unplanned pregnancy, I had an IUD in place, it fell out without me knowing, which ignited all kinds of layers of shame and embarrassment that I – but I couldn’t notice that. I was so in tune with my body, how could I not know that happened? But it did and at that point in my life I had three kids, I was stepping into this version of myself, what I loved.

At that point I was still in network marketing, but what I loved most about it was the coaching. And so I was teetering on the edge of am I going to go into coaching, is that my next move? I just was really becoming me, I had identified I was a stay at home mom, other than the doula work, I gave everything I had to my family. And with three kids I was like I’m ready, I’m ready to shift gears and give them what they need, but also give me what I need.

Susan Crockett: Well, wait, I want to pause right there, because what you just said, we glossed over it kind of quickly and I want to come back to that. So one recurrent theme that I see in society is about women giving everything to everybody else and not giving to themselves, not loving themselves or not taking care of themselves, and not being authentic to themselves.

I mean that is a very key underlying theme of this podcast is teaching women to listen to that still small voice inside of them, that God or whoever they identify as the higher being or the universe. That they learn to align with that and honor themselves and their truth.

And so I think this point that you’re making about where you are in your story and where you came to all of this is, this is not something that we want to gloss over. This is not a decision that you came to haphazardly or out of disregard. It was, it sounds like a decision you made coming from a very different place of love and knowing yourself and having your own back, is that right?

Amanda Kingsley: It was the hardest thing I have ever done by far.

Susan Crockett: I can imagine.

Amanda Kingsley: I said many times that the decision I made, which was to terminate that pregnancy, came from love. And had I made a decision out of fear, it would have been to keep the pregnancy, because I knew I could have. I could have handled it, I could have figured it out. But it would have come from a place of fear. It was so strange, but that was the easy way out. The easy way out would have been to have another baby.

Susan Crockett: Now, that’s flipping this on its head, so…

Amanda Kingsley: Crazy, right?

Susan Crockett: It is, because most of the time we think that the decision to terminate is coming out of fear. And so I really want to pause here for a second. Talk to me a little bit more about what you mean when you made this decision out of love. I really want our listeners to get this, and to hear it, and consider it, and put themselves in your heart and your position here.

Amanda Kingsley: Yeah, it’s hard, and people make this choice for all different reasons. But for me I had to look at the family I had, I had to look at the marriage I had, and I had to look at who I was. And say, “What’s in the best interest, what’s in the highest good of everyone here?” And for us, I don’t know, I’ll never know where I would have been if I’d made a different choice. But for us, I wanted to be a mom of three, I wanted to give my – I couldn’t fathom how I could give myself, my marriage, and another baby.

Anyone who’s listening who is a mother, which I’ll assume it’s much, a good portion of your audience, but I don’t know. The way I did it at least, it’s an enormous sacrifice.

Susan Crockett: Yes, it is.

Amanda Kingsley: It’s a sacrifice on your marriage, it’s a sacrifice on your wellbeing. It’s amazing, it’s the best thing I’ve ever done, but it’s to go back to that at a place in my life where I was, was just everything in me said no, everything. Everything said no, which was so confusing, because I was like, how can I not want to do the thing that’s so important to me? I mean if I close my eyes and think about where I would be if I’d made a different choice, it’s not good, it’s not good.

And it would have been so hard on my marriage, it would have been so hard on my kids. My kids are a pretty wide age gap, so right now I have a 15, 13 and 6 year old, and all by choice, the gap was intentional. But it was really hard on my older kids when he came, it was a shock. It was an adjustment to the family, and I watched that happen and they love him, and everything’s perfect as it is now. But I couldn’t fathom doing that again. If I really think about it, we would be in a very different place.

Susan Crockett: So I don’t think you’re that different from a lot of our listeners. So I think in the media we see the polarization in the far ends of the spectrum so much. But what I see in my practice is much more common – I see much more commonly what you’re describing and yet nobody talks about it, which is probably a full 40% of my patients when we take reproductive history. And I’m in Texas, I’m in conservative Texas, a good 40% of those women at some point have made a decision to terminate a pregnancy.

And when this opportunity came to do this interview with you I was like, as you know we can’t talk through it.

Amanda Kingsley: It’s a big one, it’s a big one.

Susan Crockett: This is a big one, just because it’s so polarizing. But the whole point of doing this conversation is because I want our listeners to hear from somebody like you. And particularly somebody like you who does the counseling and how you came through it on the other side, because you were just like most of them. I would say 80% of my listeners and patients who struggle with this are like you and I are, we are like we don’t see ourselves as aligned with either side because we can see both sides.

Amanda Kingsley: 60% of women who choose termination are already mothers, they know that love, they know what it means. And I think that we have the conversation on a broad scale in just a black and white way, and it’s not a black and white thing. And we think, if I’m going to talk about it I have to pick a side. And if I talk to someone else about it, they have a side. And the truth is there’s just so much grey, there’s so much grey.

And so I just posted on Instagram yesterday about like after my termination I knew it was the right thing, but I was a blubbering mess.

Susan Crockett: I bet.

Amanda Kingsley: There were so many tears, there was so much grief, there was so much sadness. But that doesn’t mean I did the wrong thing, that was just the journey, it gave me this. It gave me the ability to help other women who have to make really hard choices about their reproductive health.

My choice was not medical, although I did spend three months on bed rest with my last pregnancy, that was not the reason I chose this. But my choice was not medical, some people have to make this choice for medical reasons, mine was really, it was really lifestyle, which came with all kinds of different layers of shame and hardship. But there’s so much middle ground, I think.

Susan Crockett: So tell me about your practice and how you approach this with women. Because you have a coaching practice, where women who have gone through this are seeking your help. Tell me about how they come to you and how you approach this topic and help them.

Amanda Kingsley: Yeah. I think it comes back to that conversation about the middle, and it’s women who – a lot of women who come to me do align pretty strongly with reproductive freedom and choice. But then they find, wait a second, why am I so sad, just like I did. So that was me, I was like does the sadness mean I picked something wrong? Does me questioning what could have been, mean I did something wrong? And we come back to this black or white, right or wrong.

And so the work I do is to say, “Everything you’re feeling is normal, this is the human experience. And when you made your choice, just like when I made my choice, there was a life that I had in mind, I made that for a reason, for my kids, for my marriage, for my future. And you, there was some reason you made your choice.

It might be hard to remember back now, because you’ve been through so much since then. But what was that choice and how do we get you back on track to live that life that you made it for, so that you’re present again, so that you’re alive again, so that you’re experiencing joy in your life. And you’re not feeling like there is this dark piece of your past that you have to hide or  that made you weak in some way, because it didn’t.”

Susan Crockett: Exactly. So I think this happens, this process of disruption to the dream or the life happens regardless of which side – which black or white side women identify with.

Amanda Kingsley: Well, it’s true, I know what you mean though, we’re dealing with different populations.

Susan Crockett: We are, but there are some of each in those populations. But I think more commonly in my setting and my practice and where I am, I see women who identify themselves as pro life, yet had to make this choice. And I don’t see them as being any different than you.

Amanda Kingsley: They’re different, is that because maybe of that identifier, they’re even more scared, they’re even harder to talk about, they have even less people to find comfort in.

Susan Crockett: And more shame.

Amanda Kingsley: And more shame, yeah.

Susan Crockett: Okay, so tell me a little bit about how you take them through this, you take them back to like, well, why they made the decision and where they were then. Some of these women you meet, it’s pretty fresh and some have been struggling for years?

Amanda Kingsley: Yeah, some women call me three weeks later and some women had their procedures five years ago, ten years ago. Many women who message me, it was 30 years ago and they have never told anyone. I just got a message from someone yesterday who said, “I was suicidal, and your work changed my life.” I mean people are struggling and they don’t know where to turn, they don’t know who to talk to.

So we just work on, “What are you feeling? Allow that feeling, have your own back, keep – the way you have your own back the way you honor your choice is to keep coming back to the why? And then look for that joy in your life now, how can you start building that life.” I do this work in honor of that experience that I had. I feel like that’s the reason my IUD fell out, so that I could do this work.

Susan Crockett: Well, that’s a great way of looking at it.

Amanda Kingsley: Yeah. And I don’t think that’s the case for everyone who has an unplanned pregnancy. But there’s something that they were supposed to do in the world, and making that choice has given them the path to do it. But then they were faced with so many feelings, and so much social pressure that they just feel stuck. And most of the women I talk to feel stuck in some way.

Susan Crockett: So what you’re doing is helping them get unstuck. And it doesn’t really matter where fall in their political beliefs or the black and white thing, the fact is, when women go through this we all suffer, and you’re helping with that. Alright, well, this has been an amazing interview with you, Amanda. If you could leave our listeners with one nugget of truth or one main thing that you want them to get from this interview, what would that be? Tell me.

Amanda Kingsley: Yeah, it’s just whether your choice was termination or not, and you’ve still listened this far, whatever choices you make in your past, have your own back. Just have your own back and keep moving forward. We spend so much time stuck in was it right, was it wrong, do I regret it. It doesn’t matter, none of that matters. It’s like have your own back and take the next step forward, and the next step forward, and the next step forward. There’s just so much life to live beyond the choice that you made.

Susan Crockett: Yeah, beautiful.

Amanda Kingsley: I can argue that that choice made you stronger, you may not see that yet, so just have your own back and take one little step at a time.

Susan Crockett: And have compassion and love for yourself in where you are, yeah, awesome.

Amanda Kingsley: Yeah. Thank you so much.

Susan Crockett: You’re welcome, Amanda.

Amanda Kingsley: I admire you for opening the door to this conversation because it can feel like a complicated one to have.

Susan Crockett: Yeah, it can. Hey, can you just close by telling our listeners where they can find you if they want to do some work with you?

Amanda Kingsley: Yeah. My website is Amanda Star – S.t.a.r. Kingsley, it’s actually my middle name. amandarstarkingsley.com. There’s a video right on my homepage, and then below that, anyone’s welcome to access a free little mini book that I created for all women who have made these hard choices, just to give them some strength to keep choosing themselves then.

Susan Crockett: Awesome. That’s so cool. I’ll make sure that gets put in the post notes at the end of the podcast too, so that we have links for people.

Amanda Kingsley: Awesome.

Susan Crockett: Yeah, that’s cool.

Amanda Kingsley: Thank you so much.

Susan Crockett: Thank you, Amanda, have a great day.

So what I’ve shown you today, I hope you all really enjoyed this interview, this really was eye-opening for me and challenged me in this idea of holding space for two different ideas. I take care of all kinds of women. I take care of women who have had abortions and women who haven’t. I take care of women who are pro life and women who are pro choice, and here’s the thing, they are all women, we are all women.

And I can guarantee you, no matter who you are or what you believe, or what you’ve done or haven’t done, I will meet you with a heart of a compassionate doctor when I step into that room. We need to start having each other’s backs.

This week I want to challenge you to hold space for yourself by practicing suspending judgment about your shoulds. It doesn’t mean you let go of your beliefs, it means you hold them in one hand and you contemplate love and compassion for those who have different beliefs in the other. Cultivate compassion for yourself and the women around you. And I challenge you to move forward in the decisions that you have made in your life, the hard choices you have made in your life with joy. Move forward and live with joy in the life you have built from your knowing.

What we’re listening to and reading, this is kind of fun. So, Amanda and I both picked parts of this. So I am listening to a new artist – well, new to me, called Breaking Benjamin, there’s an album out called Dark before Dawn. And my teenage son actually shared this with me, there’s a gorgeous song called Ashes of Eden and I just love it, so I thought that was a great new find to put on the podcast today. You all know how I love music.

Amanda chose the book, it’s called Human Design: Discover the Person That You Were Born to Be, it’s by Chetan Parkyn. And she’s watching, binge watching Anne With An E.

Well, I hope you’ve had a fabulous week, I hope you’ve enjoyed the podcast. If you have, or you find it thought provoking, I hope you’ll share it.

Next week we are doing another really cool kind of thought provoking interview. We’re interviewing another one of my coaches, Margot Hanley. And we’re talking about parents and family members of LGBTQ kids. So I know an awful lot of parents, I see a lot of them in my practice that this impacts. It is going to be a really amazing, amazing podcast, I hope you’ll tune in. And until then my virtuosas, have a wonderful week. Love always, Sue. I will see you next week in episode 20.

Female Announcer: Thanks for listening to this episode of Becoming Virtuosa. If you want to find out more, come check out virtuosacoaching.com. That’s virtuosa - with an A - coaching.com. See you next week.

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